Topic started by robert (@ 202.9.152.172) on Tue Oct 21 22:31:32 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

tamil christians - what is their homeland?

portugal?

deutscheland?

france?

spain?

burghers?

south america?

where????????

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: mmc (@ 64.53.39.6) on: Fri Oct 24 16:56:03 EDT 2003
  
  The sexual ritual of the asvamedha yajna quoted from the Vedas.
  
  ASWAMEDHA SACRIFICE:
  
  From the "satapatha brahmana" sanskrit text and translation:
  
  IN SANSKRIT:
  
  
  13.5.2.[1]
  
  eteuktva yadadhrigo? parisi??am bhavati tadaha vaso'dhivasa?
  hira?yamityasvayopast??anti tasminnenamadhi sañjñapayanti sañjñapte?u pasu?u
  patnya? pannejanairudayanti catasrasca jaya? kumari pañcami catvari ca
  satanyanucari?am
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[2]
  
  ni?th\ite?u pannejane?u mahi?imasvayopanipadayantyathainavadhivasena
  sampror?uvanti svargeloke pror?uvathamitye?a vai svargo loko yatra pasu?
  sañjñapayanti nirayatyasvasya sisnam mahi?yupasthe nidhatte v??a vaji retodha reto
  dadhatviti mithunasyaiva sarvatvaya
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[3]
  
  tayo? sayanayo? asva? yajamano'bhimethatyutsakthya ava guda? dhehiti ta? na
  kascana pratyabhimethati nedyajamanam pratiprati? kascidasaditi
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[4]
  
  athadhvaryu? kumarimabhimethati kumari haye-haye kumari yakasakau sakuntiketi
  ta? kumari pratyabhimethatyadhvaryo haye-haye'dhvaryo yako'sakau sakuntaka iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[5]
  
  atha brahma mahi?imabhimethati mahi?i haye-haye mahi?i mata ca te pita ca
  te'gram v?k?asya rohata iti tasyai sata? rajaputryo'nucaryo bhavanti ta brahma?am
  pratyabhimethanti brahmanhaye-haye brahmanmata ca te pita ca te'gre v?k?asya
  kri?ata iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[6]
  
  athodgata vavatamabhimethati vavate haye-haye vavata urdhvamenamucrapayeti
  t!syai sata? rajanya anucaryo bhavanti ta udgataram
  pratyabhimethantyudgatarhaye-haya udgatarudhvarmenamucrayataditi
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[7]
  atha hota pariv?ktamabhimethati pariv?kte haye-haye pariv?kte yadasya a?hubhedya
  iti tasyai sata? sutagrama?ya? duhitaro'nucaryo bhavanti ta hotaram
  pratyabhimethanti hotarhaye-haye hotaryaddevaso lalamagumiti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[8]
  
  atha k?atta palagalimabhimethati palagali haye-haye palagali yaddhari?o yavamatti
  na pu??am pasu manyata iti tasyai sata? k?atrasa?grahit??a? duhitaro'nucaryo
  bhavanti ta? k?attaram pratyabhimethanti k?attarhaye-haye k?attaryaddhari?o
  yavamatti na pu??am bahu manyata iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[9]
  
  sarvaptirvae?a vaca? yadabhimethika? sarve kama asvamedhe sarvaya vaca
  sarvankamanapnavametyutthapayanti mahi?i? tatasta yathetam
  pratip!rayantyathetare surabhimatim?camantato'nvahurdadhikrav?oakari?amiti
  
  __________________________________________________
  
  ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
  
  The priests supervising the asvamedha: the officiant (adhvaryu), overseer (brahman), cantor (udgatri) and the invoker (hotri). The king's wives which participate in the queen-horse copulation ceremony of the asvamedha: the chief wife (mahishi), favourite wife, rejected wife and the fourth wife. The Satapatha Brahmana, quoted below, offers clear instructions on how the queen-horse copulation ritual of the asvamedha is to be conducted; the king's chief wife (the mahishi) is to copulate with the carcass of the horse while the priests and all the participants curse each other in degenerate language:
  
  "A cloth, an upper cloth, and gold is what they spread out for the horse, and on that they 'quiet' him. When the sacrificial animals have been 'quieted', the (king's) wives come up with water for washing the feet -- four wives, and a maiden as the fifth, and four hundred women attendants. When the water for washing the feet is ready, they make the chief queen (Mahishi) lie down next to the horse, and they cover the two of them up with the upper cloth as they say the verse, 'Let the two of us cover ourselves in the world of heaven', for the world of heaven is where they 'quiet' the sacrificial animal. Then they draw out the PEN1S of the horse and place it in the vagina of the chief queen, while she says, 'May the vigorous virile male, the layer of seed, lay the seed'; this she says for sexual intercourse. While they are lying there, the sacrificer insults the horse by saying, 'Lift up her thighs and put it in her rectum.' No one insults (the sacrificer) back, lest there should be someone to act as a rival against the sacrificer. The officiant (Adhvaryu) then insults the maiden: 'Hey, maiden, hey, maiden, the little female bird ...' and she insults him back: 'Hey, officiant, hey, officiant, that little bird....' And then the overseer (Brahman) insults the chief queen: 'Hey, chief queen, hey, chief queen, your mother and father climb to the top of a tree....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of kings; they insult the overseer in return: 'Hey, overseer, hey, overseer, your mother and your father play in the top of a tree....' Then the cantor (Udgatri) insults the king's favourite wife: 'Hey, favourite, hey, favourite wife, raise her up erect....' She has as her attendants a hundred royal women; they insult the cantor in return: 'Hey, cantor, hey, cantor, raise him up erect....' Then the invoker (Hotri) insults the rejected wife: 'Hey, rejected wife, hey, rejected wife, when inside her tight crack....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of bards and village headmen; they insult the invoker in return: 'Hey, invoker, hey, invoker, when the gods see that miserable PEN1S....' Then the carver (Kshatri) insults the fourth wife: 'Hey, fourth wife, hey, fourth wife, when the deer eats the barley, (the farmer) does not hope to nourish the animal....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of carvers and charioteers; they insult the carver in return: 'Hey, carver, hey, carver, when the deer eats the barley, (the farmer) does not hope to nourish the animal....' These insulting speeches are for all kinds of attainment, for through the horse sacrifice all desires are achieved. Thinking, 'With all kinds of speech we will achieve all kinds of desires', they make the chief queen get up. Then the women walk back the way they came, and the others utter at the end a sweet-smelling verse, the verse that begins, 'I praise Dadhikravan.' For the life-span and the gods go out of those who speak impure speech in the sacrifice. Thus they purify their speech to keep the gods from going out of the sacrifice."
  
  -- Satapatha Brahmana 13:5:2:1-10. [O'Flaherty, Wendy D. Textual Sources for the Study of Hinduism. Pub.: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0-226-61847-1. pp.16-17].
  
  
  FROM THE RAMAYANA:
  
  
  To ensure the birth of sons, King Dasaratha conducted both the asvamedha and the putrakamesti yajnas. The following quote from the Valmiki Ramayana details the first of the two sacrifices that King Dasaratha conducted -- the asvamedha yajna, in particular the queen-horse sexual portion of the sacrifice. Although all three of King Dasaratha's wives were united with the carcass of the horse, Rama's mom Kausalya was the one who had the honor of spending a whole night with the dead animal's genitals plugged in her vagina:
  
  "The prescribed victims -- snakes, birds, the horse, and aquatic animals -- were bound at the place of immolation; each was dedicated to a specific divinity as is set forth in the ritual texts. The priests then bound them all to the posts in the manner set forth in the ritual texts. Three hundred beasts in addition to Dasaratha's jewel of a horse were bound there to the sacrificial posts. Kausalya walked reverently all around the horse and then with the greatest joy cut it with three knives. Her mind unwavering in her desire for righteousness, Kausalya passed one night with the horse. The priests -- the hotr, the adhvaryu, and the udgatr -- saw to it that the second and the juniormost of the king's wives, as well as his chief queen, were united with the horse. Then the officiating priest, who was extremely adept and held his senses in check, removed the fat of the horse and cooked it in the manner prescribed in the ritual texts. At the proper time and in accordance with the ritual prescriptions, the lord of men then sniffed the fragrance of the smoking fat, thereby freeing himself from sin. Then, acting in unison, the sixteen brahman officiating priests threw the limbs of the horse into the fire, in accordance with the ritual injunctions. In other sacrifices, the oblation is offered upon branches of the plaksa tree, but in the Horse Sacrifice alone the apportionment of the victim is made on a bed of reeds. The Horse Sacrifice is known as the Three-Day Rite; for both the kalpasutra and the brahmanas refer to the Horse Sacrifice as a rite lasting for three days."
  
  -- Ramayana 1:13:24-33. [Goldman, Robert P. The Ramayana of Valmiki: an Epic of Ancient India. Balakanda (vol. 1). Pub.: Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-06561-6. pp.151-152].
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: mmc (@ 64.53.39.6) on: Fri Oct 24 16:56:30 EDT 2003
  
  The sexual ritual of the asvamedha yajna quoted from the Vedas.
  
  ASWAMEDHA SACRIFICE:
  
  From the "satapatha brahmana" sanskrit text and translation:
  
  IN SANSKRIT:
  
  
  13.5.2.[1]
  
  eteuktva yadadhrigo? parisi??am bhavati tadaha vaso'dhivasa?
  hira?yamityasvayopast??anti tasminnenamadhi sañjñapayanti sañjñapte?u pasu?u
  patnya? pannejanairudayanti catasrasca jaya? kumari pañcami catvari ca
  satanyanucari?am
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[2]
  
  ni?th\ite?u pannejane?u mahi?imasvayopanipadayantyathainavadhivasena
  sampror?uvanti svargeloke pror?uvathamitye?a vai svargo loko yatra pasu?
  sañjñapayanti nirayatyasvasya sisnam mahi?yupasthe nidhatte v??a vaji retodha reto
  dadhatviti mithunasyaiva sarvatvaya
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[3]
  
  tayo? sayanayo? asva? yajamano'bhimethatyutsakthya ava guda? dhehiti ta? na
  kascana pratyabhimethati nedyajamanam pratiprati? kascidasaditi
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[4]
  
  athadhvaryu? kumarimabhimethati kumari haye-haye kumari yakasakau sakuntiketi
  ta? kumari pratyabhimethatyadhvaryo haye-haye'dhvaryo yako'sakau sakuntaka iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[5]
  
  atha brahma mahi?imabhimethati mahi?i haye-haye mahi?i mata ca te pita ca
  te'gram v?k?asya rohata iti tasyai sata? rajaputryo'nucaryo bhavanti ta brahma?am
  pratyabhimethanti brahmanhaye-haye brahmanmata ca te pita ca te'gre v?k?asya
  kri?ata iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[6]
  
  athodgata vavatamabhimethati vavate haye-haye vavata urdhvamenamucrapayeti
  t!syai sata? rajanya anucaryo bhavanti ta udgataram
  pratyabhimethantyudgatarhaye-haya udgatarudhvarmenamucrayataditi
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[7]
  atha hota pariv?ktamabhimethati pariv?kte haye-haye pariv?kte yadasya a?hubhedya
  iti tasyai sata? sutagrama?ya? duhitaro'nucaryo bhavanti ta hotaram
  pratyabhimethanti hotarhaye-haye hotaryaddevaso lalamagumiti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[8]
  
  atha k?atta palagalimabhimethati palagali haye-haye palagali yaddhari?o yavamatti
  na pu??am pasu manyata iti tasyai sata? k?atrasa?grahit??a? duhitaro'nucaryo
  bhavanti ta? k?attaram pratyabhimethanti k?attarhaye-haye k?attaryaddhari?o
  yavamatti na pu??am bahu manyata iti
  
  
  
  13.5.2.[9]
  
  sarvaptirvae?a vaca? yadabhimethika? sarve kama asvamedhe sarvaya vaca
  sarvankamanapnavametyutthapayanti mahi?i? tatasta yathetam
  pratip!rayantyathetare surabhimatim?camantato'nvahurdadhikrav?oakari?amiti
  
  __________________________________________________
  
  ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
  
  The priests supervising the asvamedha: the officiant (adhvaryu), overseer (brahman), cantor (udgatri) and the invoker (hotri). The king's wives which participate in the queen-horse copulation ceremony of the asvamedha: the chief wife (mahishi), favourite wife, rejected wife and the fourth wife. The Satapatha Brahmana, quoted below, offers clear instructions on how the queen-horse copulation ritual of the asvamedha is to be conducted; the king's chief wife (the mahishi) is to copulate with the carcass of the horse while the priests and all the participants curse each other in degenerate language:
  
  "A cloth, an upper cloth, and gold is what they spread out for the horse, and on that they 'quiet' him. When the sacrificial animals have been 'quieted', the (king's) wives come up with water for washing the feet -- four wives, and a maiden as the fifth, and four hundred women attendants. When the water for washing the feet is ready, they make the chief queen (Mahishi) lie down next to the horse, and they cover the two of them up with the upper cloth as they say the verse, 'Let the two of us cover ourselves in the world of heaven', for the world of heaven is where they 'quiet' the sacrificial animal. Then they draw out the PEN1S of the horse and place it in the vagina of the chief queen, while she says, 'May the vigorous virile male, the layer of seed, lay the seed'; this she says for sexual intercourse. While they are lying there, the sacrificer insults the horse by saying, 'Lift up her thighs and put it in her rectum.' No one insults (the sacrificer) back, lest there should be someone to act as a rival against the sacrificer. The officiant (Adhvaryu) then insults the maiden: 'Hey, maiden, hey, maiden, the little female bird ...' and she insults him back: 'Hey, officiant, hey, officiant, that little bird....' And then the overseer (Brahman) insults the chief queen: 'Hey, chief queen, hey, chief queen, your mother and father climb to the top of a tree....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of kings; they insult the overseer in return: 'Hey, overseer, hey, overseer, your mother and your father play in the top of a tree....' Then the cantor (Udgatri) insults the king's favourite wife: 'Hey, favourite, hey, favourite wife, raise her up erect....' She has as her attendants a hundred royal women; they insult the cantor in return: 'Hey, cantor, hey, cantor, raise him up erect....' Then the invoker (Hotri) insults the rejected wife: 'Hey, rejected wife, hey, rejected wife, when inside her tight crack....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of bards and village headmen; they insult the invoker in return: 'Hey, invoker, hey, invoker, when the gods see that miserable PEN1S....' Then the carver (Kshatri) insults the fourth wife: 'Hey, fourth wife, hey, fourth wife, when the deer eats the barley, (the farmer) does not hope to nourish the animal....' She has as her attendants a hundred daughters of carvers and charioteers; they insult the carver in return: 'Hey, carver, hey, carver, when the deer eats the barley, (the farmer) does not hope to nourish the animal....' These insulting speeches are for all kinds of attainment, for through the horse sacrifice all desires are achieved. Thinking, 'With all kinds of speech we will achieve all kinds of desires', they make the chief queen get up. Then the women walk back the way they came, and the others utter at the end a sweet-smelling verse, the verse that begins, 'I praise Dadhikravan.' For the life-span and the gods go out of those who speak impure speech in the sacrifice. Thus they purify their speech to keep the gods from going out of the sacrifice."
  
  -- Satapatha Brahmana 13:5:2:1-10. [O'Flaherty, Wendy D. Textual Sources for the Study of Hinduism. Pub.: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0-226-61847-1. pp.16-17].
  
  
  FROM THE RAMAYANA:
  
  
  To ensure the birth of sons, King Dasaratha conducted both the asvamedha and the putrakamesti yajnas. The following quote from the Valmiki Ramayana details the first of the two sacrifices that King Dasaratha conducted -- the asvamedha yajna, in particular the queen-horse sexual portion of the sacrifice. Although all three of King Dasaratha's wives were united with the carcass of the horse, Rama's mom Kausalya was the one who had the honor of spending a whole night with the dead animal's genitals plugged in her vagina:
  
  "The prescribed victims -- snakes, birds, the horse, and aquatic animals -- were bound at the place of immolation; each was dedicated to a specific divinity as is set forth in the ritual texts. The priests then bound them all to the posts in the manner set forth in the ritual texts. Three hundred beasts in addition to Dasaratha's jewel of a horse were bound there to the sacrificial posts. Kausalya walked reverently all around the horse and then with the greatest joy cut it with three knives. Her mind unwavering in her desire for righteousness, Kausalya passed one night with the horse. The priests -- the hotr, the adhvaryu, and the udgatr -- saw to it that the second and the juniormost of the king's wives, as well as his chief queen, were united with the horse. Then the officiating priest, who was extremely adept and held his senses in check, removed the fat of the horse and cooked it in the manner prescribed in the ritual texts. At the proper time and in accordance with the ritual prescriptions, the lord of men then sniffed the fragrance of the smoking fat, thereby freeing himself from sin. Then, acting in unison, the sixteen brahman officiating priests threw the limbs of the horse into the fire, in accordance with the ritual injunctions. In other sacrifices, the oblation is offered upon branches of the plaksa tree, but in the Horse Sacrifice alone the apportionment of the victim is made on a bed of reeds. The Horse Sacrifice is known as the Three-Day Rite; for both the kalpasutra and the brahmanas refer to the Horse Sacrifice as a rite lasting for three days."
  
  -- Ramayana 1:13:24-33. [Goldman, Robert P. The Ramayana of Valmiki: an Epic of Ancient India. Balakanda (vol. 1). Pub.: Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-06561-6. pp.151-152].
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sat Oct 25 04:06:49 EDT 2003
  
  How much you get from your church to bark here?
  
  

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