Topic started by mani (@ spider-ta028.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Aug 17 18:07:20 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The deity Murugan, is the most popular deity in Tamil Nadu, actually, the Tamil people consider him "Lord Of Tamil", what is the historical aspect of Murugan? why was he made the most common principle deity for Tamil people?
What are your views on this? Pls. respond..

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Karthik (@ c998718-a.bvrtn1.or.home.com) on: Thu Oct 19 10:43:53 EDT 2000
  
  Guys this is a topic on Murugan cult. There's already a thread that discusses christianity. Let us discuss the tenets of christianity there. Mr.Arulnathan, these Hindus are barbaric. They won't heed me probably. But being a christian i hope you would heed my voice here. Already so many ppl have appealed to leave this thread for discussion on murugan cult. Let us take our discussion on christianity to the proper thread.
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-wg082.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Oct 19 14:50:47 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik,
  
  Thank you, I started this topic on how Murugan is associated with Tamils, not religiously, but based on culture, history, etc.
  
  
• From: :-) (@ telisp1c02.ml.com) on: Fri Oct 20 12:47:37 EDT 2000
  
  "these Hindus are barbaric."
  
  Enna Karthik, kiriththuva ponna daavu adikkarayaa?
  summa jokkukku sonnen ! Serious-a eduththukkaathe !
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ 02-100.057.popsite.net) on: Thu Oct 26 00:20:13 EDT 2000
  
  Survival of Kavadi Attam vestiges among Muslims of Eastern Sri Lanka
  
  Another feature of the ceremony, is the participation of fakirs or dervishes , mainly from the Eastern province. The fakirs conduct a special prayer called the Rifai- Ratheeb, where they invoke the blessings of the saint and pierce themselves with sharp knives and stakes through their cheeks and tongues.
  
  http://www.lacnet.org/suntimes/980719/plus2.html
  
  
• From: kvpillai (@ sb.nic.in) on: Fri Nov 24 08:00:53 EST 2000
  
  Actually Murugan cult denotes the movement of a race from north india to south.They could be the present day Kallars.The entire tamil community and sinhalese sprung from this group.If one sees the Vijayan legend of Sinhalese ,parallels are evident.
  
  
• From: Daria (@ anielka.tvn.pl) on: Wed Jul 10 08:53:55
  
  I would be very interested to meet the devotees performing their prayers along with Rifai Ratheeb in Tamilnadu. Where to find them and when?
  
  
• From: Daria (@ anielka.tvn.pl) on: Wed Jul 10 08:54:03
  
  I would be very interested to meet the devotees performing their prayers along with Rifai Ratheeb in Tamilnadu. Where to find them and when?
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ h66-59-174-253.gtconnect.net) on: Wed Jul 10 09:21:04
  
  They are not from Tamil Nadu, India but Tamil speaking Muslims of Eastern Sri Lanka.
  
  
• From: daria (@ anielka.tvn.pl) on: Thu Jul 11 09:42:44
  
  What are the murugan temples in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, as I will be going there in ovember/December and would be very interested to see the extreme rituals you are writing about. Is it possible to see it there at this time?
  
  
• From: Mani (@ cache-rl04.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 11 16:55:10
  
  Daria,
  
  In Kerala, Thaipooyam falls around January/February, although you will see other extreme rituals along with kavadi in December, and the best place to see it is at the Chengannur Mahadevar kovil, in the procession, you will see extreme rituals along with karakattam, ammankudam, poykaal kudirai, etc.
  
  Go to Keralatourism.org, and check out the video gallery, an click on "Sivarathri Mahotsavam", you will see people with kavadi, thookkam, and vel pierced in them.
  
  
• From: daria (@ anielka.tvn.pl) on: Fri Jul 12 11:30:36
  
  Thank you Mani
  
  
• From: Madurai Veeran (@ adsl-64-171-27-137.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) on: Sun Jul 21 02:58:25
  
  I thought the following links would be of interest.
  
  http://www.xlweb.com/heritage/murukan/shanmugampillai.htm
  
  http://murugan.org/research/marudhamuthu.htm
  
  http://kataragama.org/research/krishnapillai.htm
  
  
  
• From: sk (@ 202.142.90.104) on: Sun Jul 21 04:39:05
  
  Hi,
  In my childhood days,
  I have a great experience with these people who took Kavadi to the temple of Thiruchendur,
  on their way to the temple they stop by our village, they build temproary shelters in our
  fields and other farm houses, my grandfather was very particular in givng his land for their shelter .
  and after a day or two, The Kavadi will start from the river and after the pujas the person whos taking the kavadi will start dancing and start running towards the temple.
  
  I will never forget the broken coconut pieces and other prasadhams they shared with me.:)
  
  now a days people never come in bullockcarts :( and theres no fun.
  
  
• From: visu (@ 202.9.183.168) on: Sun Jul 21 12:03:40
  
  i remember in my school days, we used to lie down on the road and kavadi holders crossing us.
  
  
• From: mani (@ cache-mtc-ah06.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 21 12:49:23
  
  It is indeed something, just hearing the nadaswaram from the distance around the festival time, it gives you goosebumps, and hearing the beat of the thavil, and urumi just gets your heart beating faster, it really is an experience.
  
  I also remember individuals who travel alone with kavadis, like I have seen an individual from Kottayam area travelling on foot all the way to Palani with a kavadi on his shoulder, and he had a small vel pierced in his tongue for he had to keep quiet, and on his way he would collect alms, and you can see devotees approaching him as "Hara haro hara!", and "Vel Murugaa!", then they would give him money.
  
  One question though, have women in TN started to participate in Thaipoosam rituals other than paalkudam? Because in Kerala, women are seen with long vels in their cheeks, I'm sure the womenfolk broke that barrier in TN.
  
  
• From: Sathuragiri vEL (@ 61.11.36.189) on: Wed Aug 7 04:40:43
  
  For all of us who though kavadi was restricted to Murugan alone, i have had my share of surprises. in a similar fashion, you find people travelling in some parts of Northern India, especially to and from Haridwar / Rishikesh during July-August carries Kavadis. The biggest surprise is that the entire setup is similar to our kavadi procesions with sponsored resting places, small groups, etc.,
  These were towards Lord Shiva. Anyone has more details on this?
  
  
• From: Rajan (@ hostp.adia.co.ae) on: Wed Aug 7 05:23:56
  
  In Tamil Literature dating before Christ, the word 'Murugu' did mean only the 'Drumstick' (Bakiyaraj's Murungaikai) or the 'Drumstick Tree'. Only from 7th century AD, the word 'Murugu' was used for Lord Murugan.
  
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 203.197.239.1) on: Wed Aug 7 10:30:07
  
  Sathuragiri vEL:
  
  As I type this Kavadi for Lord Shiva is happening all around me . . . from Dhaula Kuan (Delhi) to Gurgaon, hordes of people are walking with that.
  
  I have read some reference to this in some religious text (Mahabarath/ Ramayan) not remembering.. it is also covered under Shravan scheme of things in North India.
  
  Reading Mani, SK and Visu's posts, I feel like being in TN right now, and listen to the Nadaswaram of some festivity or the other .. . . . sorgamE endRAloom aThu nammoora pola varuma . . :-)
  
  
• From: :) (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on: Wed Aug 7 11:35:30
  
  Srini:
  
  Looks like you are missing pippi pee pippee pee dum dum dum, can't remember the song now....
  
  Sorry for the digression
  
  Have you checked the instrumental songs at musicindiaonline.com
  
  
• From: :) (@ d221-216-98.systems.cogeco.net) on: Wed Aug 7 11:52:24
  
  >>can't remember the song now....
  <<
  
  Got it! Adi ennadi raakkamma is the song.
  
  Let's get back to Kavadi now...
  
  
• From: Mani (@ cache-dr10.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 7 12:18:32
  
  Sathuragiri Vel,
  
  Are you sure they were kavadis? I thought kavadi was restricted to TN and Kerala?
  
  Either way, there is something beautiful about kavadi and its associations. Even in the national malayali convention in America, there were about 100 kavadis, it has become a big thing both dancewise and religiouswise.
  
  Srini,
  
  Its the neyyandi melam that gives you nostalgia! Trust me, I know the feeling!
  
  
• From: :) Punnahai (@ d221-216-99.systems.cogeco.net) on: Wed Aug 7 12:24:12
  
  Mani,
  Elsewhere long ago, you had asked about nayyandi melam.Still couldn't find any clip, but here's some info
  
  Nayyandi Melam
  
  Nayyandi Melam or Chinna Melam is a rustic imitation of the classical melam or Nadaswaram and is intended purely as an accompaniment to folk-dance-drama to cater to the tastes of the unlettered audience. This orchestra consists of two Nadaswarams, two tavels, a Pambai, a Thammukku, and a pair of cymbals. The peculiarity of Nayyandi melam is that the instrumentalists also dance while playing the instrument. The troupe is in demand as an accompaniment to Karagam, Kavadi, Dummy-horse show, and gypsy-dance, popularly known as the dance of the Kuravan and Kurathi.
  
  http://www.hotelstamilnadu.com/folkmusic.htm
  
  
• From: Mani (@ cache-dr10.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 7 16:01:53
  
  Punnahai,
  
  Thanks for the info, but I knew what neyyandi melam was, I just didn't know the name for it until a while back, I just knew it consisted of a few nadaswarams, thakils, a pambai, and an urumi.
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 203.197.239.1) on: Thu Aug 8 07:33:33
  
  :) Punnahai and Mani:
  Thanks for further enlivening nostalgia. The Pongal festivity, the Deepavali grandeur, Tamil PutthAndu grace... so many occassions to listen to Mangala Isai thoughout the year . .. in temples or outside of it. My personal favourite has been Mirudangam, my God,.. there's just nothing that surpasses the divinity; It will make me immoble and speechless for a few minutes at least.. Well, let me end the digression on this note.
  
  

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