Topic started by Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on Fri Aug 15 00:43:45 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Vellala was the caste assosiated with Indianized Tamil kingdoms from their misterious origin in around10th century to their ultimate fall around 14th century.After that TN vellalas together with Brahamins became holders of land irrigated by those kingdoms.
But Kaikolas being considered weavers and temple meanials had a altogether different story.
Kaikolas brought to Sri lanka by Muslims lived with Muslims in the coastal belt being shunned by mainstream Sinhalese who refused their entry into Buddhist monasteries.They were called Chalias from Prakrit word for clothes[Sataka]which meant a derogatory way of address in Contemporary language.
As Sinhalese shunned them,they were able to live under their own headmen which ultimately benefited them and their fellow Tamils like toddy tappers and fishers as well as Muslim community.

Responses:

• From: vel (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Fri Aug 15 00:49:25 EDT 2003
  
  If Kaikolas are of equal status to Sozhias and Pandias why did Sinhalese considered them so low even under a tamil speaking court of Jayawardhanapura kings.
  Were Sinhalese considered chosen race by those kings also or really Sengunthars were considered such low even among T.N. vellalas
  
  
• From: Miami (@ 0-1pool108-11.nas4.peoria1.il.us.da.qwest.net) on: Sat Aug 16 15:07:58 EDT 2003
  
  >>If Kaikolas are of equal status to Sozhias and Pandias why did Sinhalese considered them so low even under a tamil speaking court of Jayawardhanapura kings.
  Were Sinhalese considered chosen race by those kings also or really Sengunthars were considered such low even among T.N. vellalas
  
  Any moron can think that he is the chosen race and others are low class. Don't expect sensible answers for such questions.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Sat Aug 16 16:39:43 EDT 2003
  
  First of all no proof to establish SENGUNTHAS as Sinhala Chalias. Chalias may have origins from Chernyas or Pattunookarans as well.
  
  Vellalas always classified as Shudras. Vellalas orginated from the Tamil criminal caste of KALLANS.
  
  Further how did VELLALAS become MUDALIYARS which is not the caste name to Vellalas.
  
  After the fall of Pallava kingdom only Vellalas became powerful and close to the CHOLAS. During this time SENGUNTHAS who were the descendenats of PALLAVA Royals, lost many of their properties. Only the Vellalas in Todai Mandalam call themselves Mudaliyars. Other Vellalas in other parts of TN call themselves PILLAI.
  
  So. change of Political power created the status as well. During the Cholas time Vellalas sent their girls as Devadasis. This why the cross-breeds born to those Vellala Devadasis called themselves -PILLAIs or NATTUVANS.
  
  All the NATTUVANS have their last name as PILLAI which is the caste name of Vellalas. Devadasi system became a system for prostitutes during and after CHOLAS.
  
  Sengunthan families distancd themselves from the TEMPLES which were the power houses during the PALLAVA and CHOLA times.
  
  SENGUNTHA warriors stoped their WAR services during the Vijaya Nagar due to the non-royal origins of the TELUGU Vijaya Nagar rulers but Vellalas and Brahmans continue to support Vijaya Nagar. Vijaya Nagar records shows many hundred Vellala Girls worked as Devadasis.
  
  British always supported non-military castes during their rules. This is why Brahmins and Vellalas became land owners and wealthy.
  
  Before the MUSLIM occupation, SENGUNTHA people wielded more economic and political powers under the rulers. Since the textile economy changed into others hands, Sengunthas or Kai Kolas become poor. This low economy among Kaikolas or Sengunthas created many life styles.
  
  Vellalas are really a low caste than Sengunthas or Kaikolas in any definition of CASTE.
  
  
• From: Vishnu (@ on-tor-blr-a58-01-212.look.ca) on: Wed Sep 10 22:30:21
  
  Karthi, Where are you getting your information from? I would like some reference. First of all Vellalas were Tulu people and were never originally tamil. Use a credible source to prove me wrong. I do not find one credible source on Vellalas claiming that, most historians (not fanatics) state that they are seperate from Tamils and also have different customs.
  
  First of all the Tamil caste system was a corrupt version of the original caste system of Aryanic/Indo-European India. The South Indian king wanted to marry North Indian princess/women but a adopting caste was required so they became Brahmin while the rest became Sudras. I am trying to do some more research on the caste system of S. India but I am quite sure that many Tamils in Sri Lanka were not the same as those in South India. I will get back to that claim in my next post.
  
  Since you guys discuss about caste, I have decided to join the conversation. This is why Indonesia Hindus (which was a part of various south Indian empires) have no caste system.
  
  Originally in the Vedic times there was no caste system but many like the Rutas claimed to be warrior or red. The truth is the original caste was Ksatriya and this is why many people affiliated themselves with red rather then white (Brahmin). I am refering to the Varna system when I bring up colour and this does NOT indicate race. Even in Kashmir, there is only caste and it is Baata or Ksatriya. I am quite sure a Brahmin will pop up and then claim something but I will require some siting from the Vedas. I require this because many tend to lie or post from some retarded website.
  
  
• From: Ganesh (@ 202.54.107.254) on: Thu Sep 11 00:02:17 EDT 2003
  
  Hi Vishnu!
  
  "First of all Vellalas were Tulu people and were never originally tamil."
  
  Well, forumhub is going the way tamil newsgroups went, it looks like. Why do you guys write about a subject when you have no clue and for godsake, why don't you guys read what was already written about these topics earlier?
  
  Hi Karthi,
  
  You sound like a sinhalese with tamil origins and you seem to be desperate to provide non-tamil ancestry to your original caste which gave birth to Ottakoothar. Now, please don't ask me who is ottakoothar. Why are you wasting your's and other's time here? Just because people don't respond to your nonsense, it does not mean that they have no other valid opinion. It is just that everyone's aware that one can not wake up someone who is pretending to sleep. Please read up what everyone has already written and then venture out with your theories.
  
  And finally, which century are u guys living and what is all these nonsense about high and low castes? Why can't you look at your caste history positively without bothering about other castes? The only thing that you all prove is that Brahmins are worth the pedestal they occupy.
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Thu Sep 11 04:13:48 EDT 2003
  
  As I see Vellalas of tamilnadu appears similar to tulu land owning group and Kodagus except that they are darker than these northern looking groups.
  So if Vellalas arose from Kallans who are stout heavily build people, they should appear similar.But except for Left hand Chetties who used to settle in Colombo from 16th century onwards all other higher social groups in the south india appears similar to Mediterranian people without curly hair
  I know a story of a Sinhalese family of respect who intermarried with left hand chetties known as Colombo Chetties who got all their magnificently build chairs broken overnight after marriage due to their heavily build new relatives frequent visits
  
  
• From: Velu (@ 203.115.31.44) on: Thu Sep 11 04:14:03 EDT 2003
  
  As I see Vellalas of tamilnadu appears similar to tulu land owning group and Kodagus except that they are darker than these northern looking groups.
  So if Vellalas arose from Kallans who are stout heavily build people, they should appear similar.But except for Left hand Chetties who used to settle in Colombo from 16th century onwards all other higher social groups in the south india appears similar to Mediterranian people without curly hair
  I know a story of a Sinhalese family of respect who intermarried with left hand chetties known as Colombo Chetties who got all their magnificently build chairs broken overnight after marriage due to their heavily build new relatives frequent visits
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Sep 11 10:07:48 EDT 2003
  
  Ganesh....
  Your comments are 100% wrong. I am a Tamil and I know well about Sinhala and Malayalam too. You and others try to tell some short circuited history to suit the present day needs.
  
  Ottakoothar was a state poet of Cholas of three generations.
  
  Further, speaking Tamils does not mean that all Tamil speakers have TAMIL originn.
  
  Brahmins speak Tamils and how many of you agree that Brahmins are TAMILS?
  
  No one is prepared to challenge me because they have nothing to forward. So, I believe I tell the correct information.
  
  So, dont be jealous without telling your history based arguments.
  
  
• From: nik (@ tv124213.wright.edu) on: Thu Sep 11 13:01:08 EDT 2003
  
  "Are Sengunthars a subcaste of Vellalas" ..
  ithu romba avasiyamaana topic? .... velaya paarunga ....
  
  -Nik
  
  
• From: Veelan (@ h81n3c1o254.bredband.skanova.com) on: Thu Sep 11 16:48:48 EDT 2003
  
  ##". I am a Tamil and I know well about Sinhala and Malayalam too"##
  
  Ayooo... dai Karthii..
  
  He is tamil now.. hahahaaa....
  This is something new...I think ;)
  Keep it upp.. karthi
  
  
  /// Veelan \\\
  
  
• From: Vishnu (@ on-tor-blr-a58-03-116.look.ca) on: Thu Sep 11 18:16:29 EDT 2003
  
  Karthi is a funny guy. Read this...
  
  http://members.rediff.com/drkansanpillai/vellala.htm
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Fri Sep 12 16:12:03 EDT 2003
  
  Veelan..
  You are neither Tamil nor Sinhala. Tell your home town and caste I will tell you whether you are a TAMIL or Sinhala.
  
  Vishnu..
  That is a version of Vellala history and all the farming communities are not Vellala.
  
  But you read VARMAS who are the kerala Royals. They belong to Pallavas. Present day political and economic situation cannot determine the history of Sengunthas or Kaikula.
  
  Those who supported british became wealthy people. Many Nadars and Parawars of Thoothukudy become wealthy. It doent mean that they are all HIGH by caste.
  
  In Sri Lanka Vellala history is a fun. Anyone who become wealthy claim that he is a Vellala. Many Eezhavas who brought in by Portuguse to Jaffna now claim they are Vellala.
  
  To become a Vellala, you dont need to pass any public exam.
  
  I know many Fishing Karayar people returned from Burma and Malaysia now claim they are Vellalas because Vellala people supported British and British supported Vellala because they belong to a non-military caste.
  
  The fun in Tamil nadu that all tell that no Kshatriyas in Tamil nadu. What happened to the relatives of Pallavas or Cholas? Are all dead?
  
  
• From: karthi (@ wc09.ym.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com) on: Thu Sep 18 16:51:39 EDT 2003
  
  The following was the census report of 1830 based on castes of Jaffna. Vellala Caste is less than 2% in Jaffna but now all Jaffna people call themselves Vellalas except a few.
  
  Many castes now become Vellala in Jaffna. The Sinhala Covias, Madapally, Paradesy, Chetty, Tannecara, Malayalam, Company Nalava, Tawasy, parambar and some sections of Pallar, Nalava, and Karayas too become Vellala.
  
  This is a clear evidence of TAMIL fraud and all the Tamils try to become HIGH castes by doing any frauds.
  
  How can these people talk on TRUE history of TAMILS while they steal other's history and change them as others?
  
  I posted this details and was that deleted by Forum Hub which is run by LTTE suporters from Sri Lanka and S/Afrika.
  
  This info is an official document done by Simon Cassi Chetty. He collected the infos for the Ceylon Gazeteer.
  
  
  DESCRIPTION of CASTES and RELIGIONS of the POPULAITION of the JAFFNA DISTRICT
  
  Burgher ---------------------------477 ------------------Washermen------------------2, 152
  Bramman -------------------------1,935 --------------------Moquah ------------------- 2, 532
  Chetty -------------------------- 1,807 ------------------- -Malialam------------------- 21 0
  Vellales--------------------------4,565---------------------- Covias ---------------------6,401
  Madadapally-------12,995--------Company Nallum -------739
  Moors ------------ 2,166 ------------Pallas---------6,313
  Paredesy---------- 1,830-------------Pareas---------1,621
  Mallagam---------- 1,501-------------Torambas---------197
  Caria------------- 7,562-------------Weavers----------272
  Brassfounder-------- 105-------------Cawere Chetty-----18
  Masons----------------47-------------Tawesy-----------437
  Turners---------------76-------------Nattowen----------22
  Weleper---------------50-------------Oil Monger---------4
  Caycolas-----------1,043-------------Tunmilah-------1,291
  Chanda-------------2,173-------------Pallevelly-------376
  Dyers----------------902-------------simpadawer--------40
  Chevia-------------1,593-------------Cadia------------970
  Pandaram--------------41-------------Nallua---------7,559
  Parawa----------------35-------------Potters----------329
  Tannecaras---------1,892-------------Ship carpenters---33
  Silversmith----------899-------------Marawa------------54
  Blacksmith-----------904-------------Choyaroot-digger-408
  Carpenters---------1,371-------------Paramber---------362
  Barbers------------1,024------------ Free slaves------348
  Slaves of Burghars----18
  TOTAL 1 23, 188
  
  RELIGION
  Protestant 839
  Roman Catholic 9,201
  Mohametan 2,166
  Heathen 110,982
  TOTAL 123,188
  
  
• From: vinoth (@ ) on: Wed Jul 21 05:15:22
  
  who are mudaliars,did all mudaliarsubsect took origin from same clan
  
  

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