Topic started by Gayathri & ShaliniPanicker (@ 203.197.80.79) on Tue Sep 5 11:03:55 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In KERALA women between the age of 10 & 50 is not allowed to participate in kavadiyattam. But in tamilnadu & other parts we have seen women of that age participating. Why is it so?

Responses:

• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Tue Sep 5 12:17:40 EDT 2000
  
  Kavadi Attam is a tribal form of ritual, which was Sanskritized later. (see http://xlweb.com/heritage/skanda/kavadi.htm) Kavadi in its many forms in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka is open to both sexes as it is still the purview of the common masses. In Kerala a culture, which reflects the intense conflict between what is “primitive” and “advanced” what is tribal and what is not tribal, and what is matrilineal and what is patriarchal is a complex subject to make a comment as to why women were not allowed. You have to research and find out at what point women were excluded and for what reason. All what I can say is that women were not excluded to begin with and the exclusion of women in such rituals came later.
  
  Some links on Murugan worship in Kerala
  http://www.murugantemple.com/
  
  
  A typical Kavadi in Singaporea (?)
  http://glennh.tripod.com/wa_sing_kavadi.htm
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Tue Sep 5 12:34:15 EDT 2000
  
  According Laws of Manu and other old Indian “jurisprudence” menstruating women are a source of pollution among other things thus the rationale for the banishment of women from the ages of 10 – 50 from “religious’ functions.
  
  
• From: gayathri&shalinipanicker (@ 203.197.85.172) on: Wed Sep 6 04:00:06 EDT 2000
  
  Is women under the menstruating period allowed to participate in kavadiyattam in tamilnadu & karnataka?
  
  
• From: gayathri&shalinipanicker (@ 203.197.85.172) on: Wed Sep 6 04:01:57 EDT 2000
  
  Is women under the menstruating period allowed to participate in kavadiyattam in tamilnadu & karnataka?
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Wed Sep 6 10:22:48 EDT 2000
  
  Women who are menstruating usually avoid going to temple rituals based on their own recognition of this taboo which can be found not only among the Sanskritized castes of India but also among the tribals. So no one will stop them from going but they will avoid it. But in Kerala it looks like "high" caste men avoided this problem by simply banishing anyone who is capable of menstruating.
  
  
• From: Vijay Tharma (@ 207.231.142.94) on: Wed Sep 6 11:53:39 EDT 2000
  
  more from the same page as Raveen posted...do visit ;-))
  http://glennh.tripod.com/wa_sing_tpsm.htm
  
  
• From: Mani Nair (@ spider-tf054.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Sep 6 17:55:25 EDT 2000
  
  Gayathri, Shalini,
  
  Based on your names, I take it you both are Malayalees, well anyway, kavadi aatam is a real common thing in Kerala nowadays, and based on what you guys said, only men participate, well that is true in a lot of areas, but I have seen MYSELF women carrying kaavadis (in Kollam district), while they carried kaavadis, they had a long thick vel pierced through their cheeks, as well as men, but for the men, they were hanging on flesh-hooks, carrying paalkudam, etc. If you want a visual of a Malayalee woman performing such a ritual in Kerala, the closest I can find is a video clip from http://keralatourism.org
  check the VIDEO GALLERY section, then scroll down till you find "Sivarathri Mahotsavom", you will see the rituals in Thaipuyam being performed, let it download, it takes about 45 minutes, but it is clear sound, and sharp picture.
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-tf054.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Sep 6 17:59:30 EDT 2000
  
  On another note, the women of Kerala mainly offer their mudi, and paalkudam, instead of kaavadis, don't you ever wonder why thousands of Malayalees go to Pazhani? ;-)
  
  
• From: Mano (@ www2.itd.uts.edu.au) on: Wed Sep 6 21:36:38 EDT 2000
  
  It is normal to exclude menstruating women from participating in Hindu rituals.
  
  The presence of any exudate on the body is a disqualification for the performance of any sacred rituals both for men and women. In the presenece of pus, urine, faeces, blood, sweat or tears no one is permitted to assist in cooking of food for others, enter a temple or perform any rituals.
  
  So in the presence of active flow of mestrual blood and coupled with hormonal mood swings that are common, women are relived of the burden of cooking, cleaning and exerting themselves in any way.
  
  more on Singapore Thaipusam
  
  http://www.pixtoriz.com/thaipusam.htm
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Thu Sep 7 12:06:59 EDT 2000
  
  "It is normal to exclude menstruating women from participating in Hindu rituals."
  
  But the question was why women from the ages of 10 to 50 were completely denied from Kavadi in Kerala?
  
  The answer probably is because they COULD menstruate so they eliminated that possibility completely but in TN and other places with Kavadi women are given the choice to choose between obeying the Taboo or not but no one will stop them from taking part in Kavadi.
  
  
• From: shalini&gayathri (@ 202.9.130.203) on: Mon Sep 11 06:27:23 EDT 2000
  
  Raveen & Mani,
  Thank you so much for your kind informations.Mani could you please explain the term "mudi?"We have seen kavadiyattams in different temples like puliyoor,haripadu etc.but never came across such an incident. which are the temples in kerala where we can see such an incident?
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-tk081.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Sep 11 16:16:28 EDT 2000
  
  Shalini, Gayathri,
  
  :))) Mudi=Hair, that is a Malayalam word also! :))
  Well, in Pazhani and other Murugan temples in Tamil Nadu and Malaysia, the people also offer their hair, like men, women, children, and after that ritual is done, they have their head smeared with chandanam, it is VERY rare in Kerala for them to do that though, even though people pierce their bodies with vels, carry kavadis, and paalkudam, I am surprised that this ritual is not very much performed, I think it may be due to the fact that, the Malayalees would rather tend to go to Pazhani, and have it done there, since it is the most important Murugan shrine.
  I think the hair cutting ritual in Kerala, was done in a Murugan temple in Oorasalai, I am not sure if that is the exact one though.
  By the way, did you happen to see the video in the Keralatourism website?
  
  
• From: Azhagan (@ 204.193.8.26) on: Mon Sep 18 08:02:06 EDT 2000
  
  The Murugan worship of Kerala seems to be getting to the standard of Tamils, when I was visiting Kerala, I was surprised to see Keralites being more devoted to Murugan, I have also witness a kaavadi procession there, people were shanting "Haro Hara!", and "Vel Vel, Shakti Vel!", etc.
  What is the significance of Murugan in Kerala? Why all of a sudden, the Keralites are more devoted to him? The "cult" as they call it, is taking deep effects from North to South of Kerala.
  
  
• From: shalini&gayathri (@ 203.197.85.186) on: Tue Sep 19 10:18:08 EDT 2000
  
  Mani,
  could you please tell us which are the temples in kerala where women are participating in Kavadiyattam?
  
  
• From: mani (@ spider-tj054.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Sep 19 14:53:47 EDT 2000
  
  Shalini & Gayathri,
  
  I am not fully sure, you may witness it in the rural villages near the border areas, like maybe Palakkad, I don't know which specific temples in particular, usually kavadiaatam would be performed in a procession, you might have to witness it like that.
  
  
• From: shagi (@ 203.197.80.123) on: Tue Sep 26 03:56:15 EDT 2000
  
  Is the acts of body piercing which is a part of thaipusam festival banned in India?
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-th071.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Sep 26 15:29:52 EDT 2000
  
  Shagi,
  
  I think so, but I have still seen it done in some places in Tamil Nadu, and Kerala.
  
  
• From: test (@ jece2.156ce.singa.pore.net) on: Sun Oct 22 05:37:37 EDT 2000
  
  test
  
  
• From: Gail Sari Salon (@ ) on: Tue Nov 21 08:49:18
  
  It's more disturbing to see women in trances than to see men similarly affected.The women in the throes of religious ecstasy, with their hair un combed,tongues artificially reddened with saffron powder and lewdly flitting in and out of their mouths, crazy/sensual smiles eyes rolling and breasts and hips undulating.It's an abandonment of self control at once spiritual and lewdly sexual.
  
  
• From: DAN MOODLEY ( SOUTH AFRICA) (@ netcache1.is.co.za) on: Tue Jan 16 05:57:45
  
  THE PAGE IS QUITE INFORMATIVE...BUT I NEED TO KNOW WHETHER THE WRITERS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS COMES FROM A RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND SUCH AS A GURU,SWAMI,ETC......OR IS HE JUST RESPONDING FROM AN ACADEMIC POINT OF VIEW...]
  
  I ASLO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS I WOULD LIKE ANSWERED...BUT I AM NOT SURE THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT FORUM
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-th044.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 16 09:44:43 EST 2001
  
  Dan,
  
  If it regards hinduism, Tamil or Indian history, or anything that concerns India, you'll definitely find answers here.
  
  
• From: Raveen (@ user1533.lv.sprint-hsd.net) on: Tue Jan 16 10:04:29 EST 2001
  
  "Why all of a sudden, the Keralites are more devoted to him? The "cult" as they call it, is taking deep effects from North to South of Kerala"
  
  We can explain it as much as we can explain the popularity of Ayappan amongst Tamils. Ayappan is so popular that Travel agents in Canada and UK take plan loads of overseas Tamil devotees to Sabari Malai. The reason ?
  
  
• From: Mani (@ spider-wc081.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 16 12:13:33 EST 2001
  
  Raveen,
  
  Exactly, in Sabarimalai, there are more Tamil devotees rather than Kerala devotees, and I see more Kerala devotees going to Palani. Kerala has many many Murukan kovils, even if it is not in a Murukan kovil, Thaipoosam in Kerala is still observed in the Sivan kovils.
  
  
• From: daria (@ anielka.tvn.pl) on: Thu Dec 12 07:17:09
  
  Please write me where in Kerala will I be able to see the Thaipoosam in between 11th of january and 28th of January. I was contacting the tourist infromation centers, but told me there are not any. I am going to be in Kerala during this time and I would like to see it so much. Please let me know if anybody knows the places and dates of its conduct.
  
  Best regards,
  daria
  
  

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