Topic started by Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on Sat Mar 22 09:34:41 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Kumar, you might be interested in reading this book which is a comparision between Devout roman catholicism and Sri Vaishnavism of Nammalwar.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0791429962/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/104-3280719-2088711?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Thu Mar 27 08:59:54
  
  //Let me also give you a tip . If some one starts telling 4.5 billions of yeras ago, there starts the fairy tale. Don't beleive that. //
  
  Here we go folks, the moment you all have been waiting for...our great professor RW is debunking science!
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Thu Mar 27 09:02:31
  
  Kumar, you might want to read this book:
  
  The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra.
  
  
• From: RW (@ 203.121.47.2) on: Thu Mar 27 09:50:11
  
  Karuvaya,
  
  >>Here we go folks, the moment you all have been waiting for...our great professor RW is debunking science
  <<
  
  For your information Evolution is not science. It is a belief system, where they believe that everything came all by itself billions of years ago and humans came from monkey and the universe came from dirt. I believe God created everything.
  
  Evolution: In the beginning there was dirt.
  
  Bible : In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
  
  You decide what to believe
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Thu Mar 27 11:14:33
  
  All the myths that are not based on science and all those religions which oppose science and scientific analysis will not survive for they are illogical!
  
  EVOLUTION IS FACT NO ONE CAN DISPROVE OF IT.
  
  
• From: Kumar (@ 203.63.57.202) on: Thu Mar 27 17:45:18
  
  Karu,
  I'll try t get my hands on a copy of Capra's book. I just read a brief synopsis by a physicist:
  
  >>An interesting and thought provoking exploration of the descriptive parallels between findings of western science about the behavior of particles and the truths revealed in ancient teachings of Far eastern Mysticism ,such as the Vedas and Sutras.Author explores the possibility that the behavior of physics and particles might be understood through deep spiritual practice and reflection.<<
  
  Generally, perhaps certain aspects of science can go hand in hand with sprirituality/religion. But we have to remember that many scientists and scientific theories don't confirm religion and the supernatural (ie God); in fact science sometimes does the opposite- that is to DISPROVE the existence of God and ANYTHING spriritual. There are rationalists who would probably agree with the same scientific theories as those who believe in a God, but they use use to say that God does not exist.
  
  The problem with evolution, Karu, is that although it may seem to be against what Christians would believe, it is used to disprove ALL religions, Hinduism included. If all creatures evolved, the argument can be made that there is no need for a supreme being to do anything; therefore there may be no such being at all since evolution takes care of everything.
  
  Although evolution is a theory that would make sense on many levels and throw light on the nature of things. Nature does evolve.
  
  But there are also lots of gaps and holes in the theory, as well as counter theories, ie dates, levels of evolution and future evolutions. In fact, the theory of evolution itself has evolved since Darwin's first theory.
  
  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/4871/evolu.html
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Fri Mar 28 01:17:55
  
  Not necessarily against hinduism. Evolution is against the concept of a CREATOR god. Hinduism, the concept of a god is only Personal. That too after realisation of the Brahman, there personal god vanishes. Similarly in the case of Buddhism, where there is no god in the first place.
  
  If you observe the Dasa-Avataram in Hinduism, it perfectly lists the stages of evolution in a crude manner.
  
  Matsya - the Fish
  Kurma - the Turtle
  Varaha - the Boar
  Narasimha - the Man-Lion
  Vamana - the dwarf human being
  Parashurama - the man with the Axe (Tool Age)
  Rama - the benevolent king (makings of Urban Culture)
  Balarama - the one with the agricultural tool
  Krishna - the Realized one
  Kalki - yet to appear.
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Fri Mar 28 01:20:25
  
  Kumar, one cannot afford to ignore science. We must understand our faiths in the prism of science.
  
  
• From: Kumar (@ 203.63.57.202) on: Fri Mar 28 02:27:03
  
  Karu,
  No we cannot afford to ignore science. And I will agree to that to a certain degree. Perhaps this is one difference between Hinduism and Christianity and the role of science in both religions, especially when it involves the view point of God as personal and otherwise.
  
  But religion/faith/spirituality does supercede science in the sense that they came into being and was embraced and realised by Man before the advent of science.
  
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Fri Mar 28 03:14:09
  
  Kumar, in Hinduism, there is a path called VijnAna vaada (which is scientific pursuit of truth). This means it is possible to have a complete scientific understanding. In Hinduism, a personal god is only seen as a stepping stone and not the end itself. The end is the realisation of the brahman (not brahmin).
  
  The Brahman is defined as Truth and Infinity. It is a neuter gender. It does not have a body.
  
  You can see http://www.advaita-vedanta.org for more details.
  
  Faith has science as it's bedrock. It is upon the bedrock of science that faith should exist. Man first realised how nature aroudn him works and then only "invented" a "god" and religion and adherence to that god. This was in paleolithic times. We should scrap the idea of an all powerfull god as the end itself.
  
  
• From: Kumar (@ dialup-52.40.194.203.acc01-wick-bne.comindico.com.au) on: Sat Mar 29 04:00:19
  
  Karu,
  >>In Hinduism, a personal god is only seen as a stepping stone and not the end itself. The end is the realisation of the brahman (not brahmin).<<
  
  I remember discussing this point, or something regarding this point, in another thread months ago. I just noticed that although Hiduism has it's basis on Advaita-Vedanta, the bulk of the faith of Hindus is based on a 'personal deity'as with Christianity. Sri Andaal yearns for God as a maiden waits for her groom. Kannapar's faith to God was to the point of sacrificing one of his senses. I suppose I can relate to these two examples because it is similar to the Christian faith where God, on one level, is related to as the Other. But at the same time, the goal here is to be one with God.
  
  I agree to a certain degree that >>Faith has science as it's bedrock.<<
  
  Science can confirm faith. However, I am a bit hesitant with taking science as a whole and using that as a benchmark to authenticate a faith/belief/religion. The majority of scienctific discoveries and theories were formed mostly around the 19th, 20 and 21st century. Some theories are just theories- based on observation, estimation and even guess-work.
  
  But faith/spirituality has been around since time immemorial. I do however agree that science can support faith and vice versa to a certain extent.
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Sat Mar 29 06:28:21
  
  I don't think faith/spirituality has been around in time immemorial. It was was first invented by the early homo sapien species to understand nature (the beginnings of science itself).
  
  We have come 150,000 years from them, we need to progress further. Yes, religion is good, but only when it confirms to science.
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-174.austin.rr.com) on: Sat Mar 29 06:31:24
  
  //The majority of scienctific discoveries and theories were formed mostly around the 19th, 20 and 21st century.//
  
  Not true. That is based only on the Eurocentric view. Fritjof Capra explains that Quantum Physics and the science of reality was already known to Eastern Religions centuries back.
  
  
• From: Alfonse (@ 213-145-174-180.dd.nextgentel.com) on: Mon Mar 31 13:19:40
  
  

  Slut's offspring MMCPannidevan: Why dont you work on getting your mother off from soliciting cheap sex on the streets instead of starting fights here?

  
  
• From: Kumar (@ 203.63.57.202) on: Thu Apr 3 18:17:14
  
  Karu,
  >I don't think faith/spirituality has been around in time immemorial. It was was first invented by the early homo sapien species to understand nature (the beginnings of science itself).<<
  
  Perhaps. That is why I think that alot of ancient medicine was explained in a spriritual way, as there was no scientific exlanations then.
  
  But my understanding of spirituality also has to do with wisdom, thought and philosophy. Homo sapiens may have discovered the rudiments of nature; but wisdom was beyond science. And by wisdom, I also mean way of life, culture, charity, love, etc.
  
  The link you provided on Clooney and his discovery of Thiruvaimoli. (Dare I say, this is may be a missing link in Christian thought. Eurocentric christianity had placed a lot of emphasis on western thought and philosophy. Perhaps Eastern thought, as suggested by Clooney, should be discovered).
  
  

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